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Creating Greatness: The biggest lessons he learned in entrepreneurship with Jonathan Antin [Podcast Ep 56]

Feb 08, 2021

Tune into this exciting episode as an internationally renowned hairstylist, Jonathan Antin shares his view on “overnight success,” and how he started as an actor which lead him to his entrepreneurial journey as a hairstylist.

  • The importance of being teachable and how to make your own “twist” to what someone else has already done.
  • Why you don’t need to know everything before starting a business.
  • Why the fear of failure shouldn’t stop you from jumping in and building the business of your dreams.

Internationally renowned hairstylist, Jonathan Antin, is known for creating the most sought-after hairstyles for Hollywood's A-list celebrities. A true innovator in the world of beauty, he made his television debut on ABC's Extreme Makeover and E! Entertainment's Fashion Emergency, effectively pioneering the trend of bringing beautiful hairstyles to modern-day cable and network programming. Antin's acquired fame and success led to a starring role on Bravo's hit series Blow Out, which chronicled his life for 3 years as a passionate and driven salon owner and celebrity stylist. Shortly after, Antin took over the role as the head judge on the 3rd season of Bravo's next hot show, Shear Genius. Blow Out and Shear Genius aired in over 40 countries bringing Jonathan international acclaim in addition to being two of the first reality TV shows ever on-air hence changing the face of television today.

A Los Angeles native, Antin was raised among the fashion and beauty industry's elite. As a teenager, he was inspired by Warren Beatty's role in the award-winning hit movie Shampoo. It was then that Antin found his true calling and enrolled in the Hollywood Beauty Academy, after which he began working at some of the city's best salons. Like Beatty's character, Antin's good looks, charisma, unique fashion sense, and fresh approach proved irresistible. Within a few short years, and after extensive experience styling runway shows in NYC and Paris, Antin opened the doors to his own namesake salon for over 20+ years, garnishing a list of celebrity clientele, all the while creating his own successful hair product collection sold globally and on QVC.

For more than 25 years, Antin's cutting-edge hairstyles and innovative contributions to the world of lifestyle and beauty have been featured in countless fashion and style magazines, including Vanity Fair, Elle, Vogue, Allure, W, In Style, People, Glamour, and Harper's Bazaar. Antin also fashioned the looks in many award-winning music videos including Ricky Martin's "Livin' La Vida Loca," Aerosmith's "Livin 'on the Edge" and the Pussycat Dolls "Don't Cha". Antin has worked with high-profile celebrities including Madonna, Drew Barrymore, Jennifer Lopez, Cameron Diaz, Nicole Kidman, Leonardo DiCaprio, Eva Mendes, Kate Bosworth, Jewel, KD Lang, Christina Aguilera, Tobey Maguire, Eric Dane, Jay Leno, Tiger Woods, Katherine McPhee, David Beckham, and Gavin Rossdale – just to name a few. Additionally, he has appeared regularly and shared his expertise on NBC's Today Show for over a decade, The Tonight Show with Jay Leno, ABC's The View, Jimmy Kimmel Live, and also on cable networks including E! Entertainment, the Style Network, and MTV.


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Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the elevated entrepreneur podcast. I'm here today with Jonathan Antin. Jonathan, how are you?

I'm well, considering. How are you? Thank you for having me by the way.

Oh, you're very welcome. I'm well as well

Right? Well as can be.

So today, Jonathan, we're going to talk about some pretty cool stuff because you, you know, we were just talking before, I introduced the episode and you were saying, you know how people think that you were kind of overnight success and you were like, what? And I love that. And that's kind of what happens, right? Like people become, you know, successful or they become a household name or they show up on TV, like, you know, as you did. And people just assume that things just fall into their laps.

Oh, I mean, like, you know, that even the celebrities that I've done, like, you know, way back when I did Madonna's hair, like, you know, people called her an overnight success and she would say to people, what the fuck are you talking about? I've been working, I've been singing and dancing since I was five, you know, or Ricky Martin, you know, I did the video living LA Vida Loca with him. I did every video he ever made. And I cut his hair from the middle of his back to that short-living LA Vida Loca haircut in the trailer, the morning of the video, all of his hair, 14 inches long, all off for the video per Tommy Mattola the head of Sony, Latin America made me do it. Ricky fighting me and, you know, and of course the whole world when he did the not the Oscars, but the Grammys.

And he's saying the world cup song-- cup of de Oro and had a standing ovation, and one is Grammy's, you know, the whole world thought that he was amazing and he was a star and they knew that he was like Minuto and you know, general hospital, but as the other half of the world thought, Oh, he's an overnight success, you know, live on libido Loco, a one-hit-wonder. And it was like, you know, the guy had been singing in a group since he was like six. I mean every single star I did-- tiger woods. I started doing tiger woods' when he was 17 and anyone, three junior US opens and three junior amateurs open and three amateurs US open and no one had ever done that. And he did that by the time he was 17, 18. And through-- cause I did Kevin Costner's hair and through Kevin, they were friends, I met Tiger. And he had like a big, huge Afro. And I was the first one to give him his short, handsome, Billy Dee Williams kind of vibe, you know, or Will Smith, you know? 

But everybody thought it was like an overnight success. And it was like, okay, look up on the internet. And you'll see him hitting the golf ball when he's three years old on the Michael Douglas show. And it was the same thing, you know, with a blowout. I mean, granted reality TV was just getting, I mean, I think we were the third reality show ever on in the United States, like a real reality show, like the restaurant with Rocco DiSpirito that aired four months before the blowout, same producer, Ben Silverman and eye for the straight guy aired a different producer aired nine months before the blowout, which by the way, blow out, ended up blowing out both of their ratings in the second season. Not to say that they both weren't great shows cause they were, but I mean the real world kind of set the bar, you know, MTV's the real world that was kind of like what got it going.

But there were other reality shows in England and the UK that were kind of reality like that Ben Silverman basically stole, or I wouldn't say stole, but brought the concepts here and then started them like a blow out the restaurant. He did. He brought the office here with Steve, whatever his name is, Steve burrow. Yeah, Carell. Quick funny story. Steve Carell and I, because the same producer, right? Reveley entertainment, Ben Silverman, because we had the same producer and Steve was on the office was on NBC and blowout was on Bravo, NBC universal owned Bravo. So when we did press junkets for our shows, we would do them together. Right. And how about this? Me, Steve Carell, and Donald Trump would all do press junkets together, and yeah, crazy.

And even Steve Carell and I even judge the Miss America pageant for Donald because, you know, he owned it and, but our press junkets, you know, we were sort of governed by NBC universal that we had to be there and we had to do our press junkets and kind of like take pictures together and walk down the red carpet and go, you know, press junkets are you go from room to room, all the different networks and in a hotel and, some rooms we were together. And the weird thing was like blow out at the end of the first season was more well-known than the office. And we aired at about the same time, but it was like, it was slower, you know, it just grew a little slower than blowout and blow out, hit really big, really fast.

And, you know, we'd be together and people would, you know, the photographers it'd be like, we'd be sitting right next to each other. Jonathan, Jonathan, Jonathan, Jonathan, and Steve would be standing right next to me. And like, you know, he would look at me and he'd be like, I'm sorry, what is it that you do again for work? He would say that to me. And I'd say okay, so I know you're a comedian. Is that a joke? Or are you being serious? And he'd say, no, no, no, well, I'm being serious, but like, I've never seen your show. I don't watch TV. I'm just, you know, but I know your show is about your work, isn't it? It's not like a scripted show. It's unscripted. And I would tell him and he would say, Oh my God. Wow. That's so amazing. Yeah, I have, I got to watch it, you know. And he would say to me, my wife has seen it and she's kind of obsessed with it, but I don't watch shows. I don't even watch my own show. And I'd say, that's funny. I don't even watch my show either. I never watched one episode of the blog. I couldn't, but anyway, whatever the end of the story is like the paparazzi would be yelling out my name over him and, you know, he would definitely get a little funky about it. I would sense it, but then obviously, of course, you know, six, five years later, he's like, you know, Michael Jackson, Elvis Presley, you know what I mean? Like larger than life, as big as it gets making, you know, $20 million a year, you know what I mean?

And then more when he started his film career, you know and by the way, well worth that. I mean, a genius, you know, no, one's better than Steve Carell, you know? And then we ended up members at the same country club, Lakeside country club here, and in the Valley. And we would see each other hitting balls, playing golf, and I'd be like, Hey, Steve, how are you doing? And he looked at me like, do we know each other? Yeah, he did give me one of those. And I'd be like, yeah, it's Jonathan. Remember the hairstylist. We did press junkets together. And you'd be like, Oh my God, I'm sorry, bro. So rude of me. I apologize, you know, I'm not doing that thing. Like I don't. And I'd say, yeah, it's okay. Don't worry

Funny. Oh, it happens. Right. So, and then things, things springboard for you. But I want to know about what is going on before, blow out, tell me how you got to this.

What was going on before blowout was, I mean, I started doing hair. Well, I was an actor. I started acting at 12 years old and my brother was kind of a successful, sort of, not sort of, but a successful actor, 10 years older than me, he was in a movie called the last American Virgin. It was a big sort of like an indie hit. He was in the accused with Jodie Foster. He played the college frat boy that raped her on the pinball machine. Yeah. You know, that he didn't want to, but they kept forcing him to do it. He was in Goonies, which by the way, they're doing a remake--

Oh my god, that's exciting

I know, I think he's going to be in it. He's been in, you know, he was in several movies and he was like, he was in that magazine, teen idol all the time.

Although he wasn't a teenager, he looked like a teenager and 10 years older than me. You know, obviously still, but look, 10 years younger than me still, or maybe doesn't look 10 years younger, but he looks about, we look about the same age now. Cause he's really into the like, you know, looking young. I don't give a shit. So it is what it is you know.

So he got you into acting?

No, my mother got me into acting because she wanted me to, she just always was, you know, thought my mom's British. And she was always, she was in the entertainment industry and she was always like, you know, you're better looking. You're bigger. You're going to be taller. You're, you know, darker, he's lighter. He was kind of blondish and short and I was, you know, dark and whatever, a little taller and she just thought like I was the bigger, better version of them.

And by the way, she was right. But I studied acting and went on auditions and I got a couple of little small roles, but like nothing groundbreaking, you know, at a few commercials and, you know, and I had Bob Lamond as my manager who was, John Travolta, Mickey Rourke, and Patrick Swayze's manager. And he picked me up. He signed me because he knew my mother and my mother sent me in and he kind of fell in love with me and I fell in love with him. And, you know, like in a professional way, obviously, and he's since passed. But he was a genius. I mean think about it. He found John Travolta and Mickey Rourke and pastured Swayze,

Do you know what I mean? He discovered them. And everybody thought like I was the new young Patrick Swayze, you know, all the casting directors. And I was Steven, his little brother and I was, you know, I was going to make it, it was bound to happen, you know, the younger brother thing, like Rob Lowe and his brother and, you know, whatever, Charlie Sheen and Emilio and that big of a whole family going over there.

And my sister also was kinda, making a move and acting and she was a dancer and Robin, obviously, you know, who my sister is, she on the pussycat dolls, she created the pussycat dolls. She was one of them. And then she signed a deal with Jimmy Ivan, and then she pulled herself out of the band and just became the owner partner and manager with Jimmy Ivan. And then she also had a reality show, the search for the next pussycat dolls. But she started on my show in the finale of season two as the host, which I fought for because they wanted an actress. And I said, no, I won't miss. I want Robin to do it. And then my brother pitched the show to the CW about the pussycat dolls, and then she had her own show.

Anyway, you know, that was, I started as an actor. And just one day I went on this audition for this one, movie of the week called the return of Peyton place. And it was, it was a big deal. It was a Motown film production, and, I got three callbacks on it and it was pretty much luck. Like I had landed my first role. I even got paid for the third call back, back then, or I dunno if these still do, but back then, if you got three callbacks with the director you got paid. And all of a sudden I got called from Lois who was Bob's, you know, left-hand, not right hand, but left-hand, and she said, you know what? I'm so sorry, Jonathan. We all thought you had it, but, and the casting director loves you and she wants to see for everything and you're gonna make it, but they just felt like you were a little too green.

Like you looked apart, you were amazing. We saw the video, but your voice was just a little too high for the role. Cause I was like, I was 16 and I was trying out, I was auditioning for a role of an 18-year-old. And,  you know, I was tall. I mean, I'm not, you know, six-two, but you know, I'm five 11. And, you know, I think I was about five, 10, 16, and, you know, I was kind of buff, you know, I played ice hockey and football and kind of a tough guy, you know? But she said I didn't get it. And I went home and I said, mom, I'm sorry. I know this is really going to ban me out, but I'm over it. I don't want to act anymore. I don't want my career in the palm of someone else's hands.

And these casting directors all have had their heads up their asses and they don't know what they're talking about because if they had given me that role, I would have been better than anybody else. And I don't even know who they gave it to, but it eventually, you know, did air and it didn't even do that well, you know, but whatever, it would have been a big role for me. And I quit acting and I studied at the Beverly Hills Playhouse with Milton Katselas one of the greatest acting coaches of all times. Like it was impossible to get into the Beverly Hills Playhouse. And Bob Lamond got me in and I studied with like, like Tom Cruise was there a couple of times while I was there, like I did scenes with like major, major movies stars, you know, and I felt like I was going to make it. And you know, the ironic thing about it all was that all I wanted was to work and be an actor. And then I became a hairstylist and ended up on television.

I was going to say the universe a different, a different plant.

And I ended up being a hairstylist it's way too long of a story. It would be like a three-part episode podcast.

Well, the bottom line really is that you worked your ass off. Right?

I worked my ass off. I walked into a beauty school one day to pick up my grandmother, having her hair done. And I drew a picture of, some of the girls had a hair on, on the chalkboard while I was waiting for, and the guy ran the school, he looked like a male, Marilyn Monroe, literally, and sounded like Harvey Fierstein. He talked like this. It was like from a long Island, he walked up to me and he said, Oh my God, you're amazing. You got the hands of an angel. He said, Mrs. Gala, who is my grandmother, Mrs. Gala is this your grandson? And she said she was British. She said, yes, it is. It's me, you know, and I'm so sorry. I know he's drawing on the board and he shouldn't have been doing that. That's horrible, but he's, you know, he's got a loud mouth and he doesn't listen to anybody and he's a busy body and I'll never bring him back again.

You can't take him anywhere. And he said, no, it's okay. He's all right. let's look, look at him. He's gorgeous. And he can draw. He's like Michael Angelo. And he looked at me and he goes, have you ever seen the movie shampoo with Warren Beatty? And I said, no, dude, I've never seen that movie. I don't know anything about a movie shampoo. And he said he's ahead dresser. He's got all the girls in the world. You need to be like him. You'll look like him. You talk like him, but he can't draw. Like you, you should be a hairstylist. Forget about being. Cause I said to him, I wanted, I was studying to be an actor. He said, forget about that nonsense acting. You need to be making people beautiful. It's much. You need to be making people beautiful.

It's much more-- fulfilling? Yes, exactly fulfilling. And so, you know, I thought about it for a couple of weeks. I saw the movie and I was like, yeah, that looks good to me. I can do that. And all of the checks and this and that, and you know, I was like, that's cool. And again, I was only 17 and I thought about it for a few weeks and I called him back and he gave me his card and I called him up. And I started at Marin Ellos, Fairfax beauty Academy, on Melrose and Fairfax when I was 17. And I knew a lot of big hairstylists in West Hollywood and Beverly Hills because my family was in the industry. So they all went to good hairstylists. And I was, my mom always had like somebody good cutting my hair.

So I knew a lot of them. So as soon as I started beauty school, like all the big hairstylists that my family knew, like they all were like, Oh my God, Jonathan, the minute you graduate, you have to start here. We have to have you, you can't work anywhere else. And so, you know, I had already had an in and I was also, I also knew via Alsace soon. I went to high school with Katia and Eaton and I used to cut their hair while I was in beauty school, right in front of their kitchen. And that was a whole other nightmare story. Even though I loved him and he was a genius, but you know, he would look, I would do a haircut on a Katia on you sweating, shaking. And I turned around, I'd say, so Mr. Sassoon, did you like the haircut? Do you think I did it right? You know, I kind of did your long layer Drake shape C-shaping haircut. And he would say to me, yeah. So, all right, so it's not bad. Keep your-- we'll see what happens after you graduate. And he would say, well, we'll see what happens after you get your permit. And I say, well, actually it's called the license in California, not a permit, but that's okay. Don't worry about it. And then, you know, of course, 15 years later I was doing work that, you know, I mean, I was the least likely to succeed when I started as a hairstylist. Like I was not great, you know, I could draw my dad.

My dad was an artist by trade and went to Pratt in New York and, you know, educated artist. And so I could draw, you know, it was in my blood and I could sculpt, I could paint. I could do anything with my hands, but like cutting hair was a whole other thing, because like, it just was different. You know, like what I could do was like 2D and two and a half D dimensional, cutting hair was 3d and kind of 4d because you cut it one place and drop it. And it goes to a--you know, it's like a different thing. So to translate what I could do on paper and clay to someone's head was very difficult. But one day a light went off. I kind of figured it out. You know, the concept of gravity kind of came into my head and I was like, Oh my God, I got it. I got it. I know what they mean. I know what he means. I see what B now is talking about. I'm going to them all out the water.

Listen, I took all their theories and methods and put it all into one and made it my own. And, you know, I think to this day, my skill level, rivals, listen I've never said to anyone, I'm the best hairstylist in the world, but I've always said there is absolutely no way in the world there's anybody better.

Mm. So that's an important point right there too. So you just said that, like, you made it your own and you know, you can learn, right. We can all learn from somebody that's already there. That's already where we want to be. But until you take something that you've learned and then give it your own twist, your own flare you're on whatever it is. It's not yours until you do that. Right.

Absolutely, 100 percent

You have to learn, you have to be teachable even today. Even today, I watch YouTube videos, you know, occasionally, like, you know, when I started doing hair, I did everything color, hot chemicals, you name it. And hold on, wait for the plane to pass.

Okay, good.

You know, back then, we, everybody, all hairstylists did everything only, you know, 15, 20 years ago did the concept of departmentalization and specializing come into play in the world of hair, as well as like, cosmetic surgery and dentistry, you know, like surgeons.

We all did everything back in the day today everybody's specializes in. So I stopped coloring hair and started only cutting for like 25 years and the last 20, 25 years. So do you think that helped? Well, I mean, yes and no. Yeah. It definitely helped me hone my skills in cutting cause I wasn't coloring. But, what I was gonna say is, you know, when COVID hit and over the years, you know, I've had people like the demand that I used to do that I used to color 25 years ago, like begging me to do their color when one of my colorists that I gave them to was out of town and it would beg me and I would like, okay, you know, break down, I'll do, I'll do it just for fun. I'll do one. Do you know what I mean? And it was always, you know, over the last 25 years doing like one or two or three a year, it was fun, you know?

I used to do 12 a day, you know, 12 heads, a day of color, and 12 haircuts a day, you know? When I obviously 25 years ago, so, you know, when COVID hit, it changed the whole industry of hair. And I mean, I don't even want to get into what in California or especially LA County with the shutdowns right now, it's crazy. What's going on? Like hairstylists are still busy. They're still doing house calls. They're still, they're actually even making more money. A lot of hairstylists are doing house calls, pocketing their own money. And by the way, collecting unemployment at the same time, not so not, not so, you know, ethically and morally sound, you know what I mean? But not saying that mine is, but there's a lot of them, the majority of them are.

But, a lot of clients don't want and listen to some salon owners are sneaking people into their hair salons and boarding up their windows and still doing, taking clients in their salons. And it's so illegal and you can be totally shafted and busted and lose your license. So, you know, obviously, I'm not doing that, but you know, me and my hairstylist, we're all doing house calls, but a lot of my clients said to me, you know, listen, Jonathan, you know, I really need my color done, but like right now I don't want a whole, you know, entourage here. Can you please do my color? And you know, these are not easy colors. And when you haven't done it in 20 years, you know, as colors have changed, color lines have changed. Everything has changed. The techniques have changed.

Like  I did my own type of Bali ODG 30 years ago. That was different today. It's like, you know, painting and on like that, like no one did that back in the, you know, then we all, it was all foil, you know? So, you know, I've had to like kind of learn overnight how to like-- these new techniques. And obviously, I can do them, you know, because like I have colorists who do them and I see, and I know how it's done and you know, I know color and chemicals, so it's not hard for me to like see it done once and know it right away. And it's not like, you know, it's like, I've always said, it's not the arrow. It's an Indian, you know what I mean? So like, you know, it's not like it's not the actual color. It's how you put it on and the placement and the color you choose and all those things are really easy to figure out, you know? So anyway, I've had to start doing color again, you know, which, by the way, my colorist are upset about because a lot of clients take them, like all my clients back, but like, you know, a good couple of handfuls of clients, I've had me start doing their color again. And by the way, I'm enjoying it. I'm having fun, you know? Cause you know, it's added like another element back into the world of hair for a man

It's spicy.

You know, it helps me paint the whole picture again. Like I used to when I first started, you know, instead of painting half the picture and like, instead of building it, like it's, it's how like when I educate it's I refer to hair cutting is like building a home, you know, it's like you build the home, then you have the home to an interior designer and a painter and they paint the house and make it look pretty like that's what color does, you know? And cutting hair is very architectural, you know? And now I've been able to kind of like, fulfill that sort of hole that I've had for the last 25 years when I'm, you know, yelling at my colorist in the back room, like, no, that's not what I want or yeah, I know you want to do that, but that's not what she wants and that's not what I want.

So just do what I want and everybody will be happy, but if you don't do what I-- you know, and listen, I let my people do what they want to do. I don't tell them what to do. But, you know, there's some hairstylists are not the easiest and hair colorist. They're not the easiest people in the world to deal with. Yeah. Any artists, you know, we're all, and neither is mine. We're all a pain in the ass, you know? So we're all nightmares. So, you know, anyway--

So you did hair. How long did you work in other salons before you said, you know what, screw this, I'm going out on my own.

I got my license, just before my 18th birthday. I did my apprenticeship under a guy named Arthur John, from 18 to 20 at a salon called Arthur Johns in West Hollywood, Santa Monica Boulevard, and West Orange, one block from Los Siannaga and at 24 I went on the floor, there are two years and started cutting hair. And then I bounced around for a year or two, about two years cutting hair at Carlton hair and the Beverly center and teaching and educating. And they sent me to South Africa to teach their hairstylists over there. And I taught a little bit at Sassoon. And then all of a sudden, Arthur John went under and the receptionist, who was the late Ron Neiman who also passed, was wonderful. And he called me and was very much like Mr. Mike from my beauty school from long Island or Ron was from Staten Island. He called me, had the same accent. Jonathan went on and you need to pack your shit, get back here because we're going, gonna lose the salon and you don't come back. It's over, everybody's leaving. You're the only one that can like to keep everybody yet. All right. So just get back here. And I was like, Ron, I'm not coming back there. I did my time there. You know, it's just not happening. You know, like, I have my own world now, you know, I'm not Arthur's slave anymore, you know, and although I loved Arthur and I still do and Arthur still doing hair, I mean, I learned my first celebrity hair with them doing Ava Jahjaga bores wigs and Tina Turner's wigs and Diahann Carroll and John Travolta and Olivia Newton, Arthur did their hair.

So like, you know, I had all that exposure to that, to the industry. So listen, you know, I owe my career and my life to Arthur. And in fact, when I-- so end of the story, I come back to Arthur John, the salon goes under Arthur sells, it leaves to these two weirdo investors from Canada that thought they were going to move to LA and, you know, buy a hair salon and be around celebrities, the weirdest couple you've ever met in your life. And they didn't pay any rent. So the landlord threw them out. And I went to the landlord and I was 23 and turning 24. And I said to this other guy, Ron, the landlord, I said, listen, I have some money saved up. I was going to buy a one-bedroom condo, my first piece of property.

But I'll give it to you. And I mean, it was like nothing. I'd like 10 grand, you know, and I said, but I'll give it to you. And hopefully, that'll, you know, like pay what they owed you and a deposit for me to rent the space and it was cheap, but it was a big 3,500 square foot salon, you know? And so like overnight I picked the-- he said, okay, I picked up the phone. I called all my friends that were hairstylists in LA and said, guess what? You don't have to work in that fucking prison anymore. Come work for me. I have my own salon. Now I just bought Arthur Johns and freedom is like in our future. So come work for me. And I was a real hairstylist salon owner, you know because I did hair.

So like I made sure that everyone that worked with me, not for me, but with me, made money. Like I made money. Do you know what I mean? I wanted my stylists to be homeowners and drive nice cars and have nice things. So, you know, I had my first salon at 24, for 22, 20, 23 years. Literally, and it was on a blowout. The West Hollywood song was on a blowout, obviously opening the Beverly Hills salon, which was real. But, you know, I kind of did it for the camera, but, but it was real, it was a real salon. It really hired everyone. And, you know, it was a real moneymaker. I mean, it was a real song. 

So what, like surprises to you when you opened the salon? Like, as a new business owner?

Well, first of all, no idea how to run a business. No, I mean, day one, I begged Ron Kates to give me the lease, let me take over the lease, and take my cash. That was like, you know, under my mattress. And like the West Hollywood sheriff came to the salon and they had to evict and evacuate everyone from the premises for not like five minutes before they could then turn before Ron could turn the premises, the property over to me because they still had the lease. And although they hadn't paid, you know, they had not defrauded, but, almost it's such a loss for words right now, they hadn't paid the rent. Right. So they had whatever the lease, what's it called?

I don't know but I know what you're talking about

They didn't pay their rent. So he was able to evict them and the West Hollywood sheriff made it, came to the salon and threw everybody out, and made the owner's wife pack her purse and leave and wouldn't let her take the computers or anything in the salon. And it was like a nightmare. And she called her husband and her husband was like yelling and screaming and I'm coming down there. And the cop said, if you come here, you're going to jail. So my recommendation is you stay where you are, cause we're letting your wife leave. And Mr. Antin is the new owner of the salon and that's it. So don't even bother coming here. Cause it's all, it's a lose, loses situation. So he didn't show up the West Hollywood, sheriff locksmiths changed the locks, handed me the key, and said welcome to West Hollywood, Mr. Antin. Good luck with your new business. And the landlord was right there and the cops were right there and we had three hairstylists there, me and two other stylists, and Ron, the receptionist, and Daisy, our housekeeper at the time. And we were all standing out on the sidewalk, literally, you know, like, and two of the clients had foils in their hair and I kept saying to the cop, Hey, the sheriff, I said, I'm sorry, officer, like she has chemicals on her head. So like, like if we stay out here any longer, she's going to have like a whole burden in her head. You're going to have a lawsuit like against West Hollywood. So I would highly recommend you let us back in there and shampoo her hair out. And he was like, yeah, I know, I know. I know like one more minute. Okay. We just gotta make sure everything's done by the book. So a guy drilled out the locks, changed, the locks handed me the key, good luck, blah, blah, blah. We walked in. And the phone rang as we all walked up the stairs and, you know, it was like three clients and three hairstylists and, you know, two employees and we're all in the reception area at the same time.

Wow. Amazing. Oh my God, what just happened? It was great.

The phone rang and Ron looked at me, said, Jonathan, Jonathan, he was, he was always yelling. I said, what? He said the phone's ringing. I said, well, answer it, but what do you want me to say? What do you want me to cry? Well, how do I answer it? It's not off the Johns anymore. And I was like, just pick up the phone and say, thank you for calling Jonathan's salon. Can I help you? And that, and that moment was the beginning of my career that moment. And he picked up the phone and said, thank you for calling Jonathan's salon. Can I help you? And you know, that was it. And I was, you know, like tripping, you know, like, Oh my God, how the fuck am I gonna pay this rent? How am I gonna, and, you know, I paid like six months rent in advance, but like, I didn't know, you know, how I was going to pull this off.

And, you know, as I said, I called all my hairstylist friends and they all came over and, you know, within a year it was, my salon was like one of the first big celebrity salons in Hollywood. Jonathan's salon was definitely one of the biggest, and that's why Ben Silverman from blowout or producer came to me because he, you know, everybody kind of knew about my salon. And if it wasn't me that they knew about doing celebrity hair, it was Sally Hershberger who worked for me. And she did like Tom cruise and Meg Ryan. And I did, you know, whatever I did like Aerosmith and Bon Jovi and way back then, you know, and I would do mag sometimes. And I did like a different group. I, Katie Lang and Sandra Bernhardt and, you know, we all just, and it was very weird. We all, it was very incestuous, hair back in the day where we all would like, celebrities would jump from stylist to stylist. And by the way, it's still that way, you know, 

Relief of fame, like a total leap of faith. Think about it at all. You just did it.

I just did it. I mean, I saw how Arthur did it. And Arthur was the worst businessman in the world, even though he had the salon for 22 years and it ran really well, but like, he was all about hair. He didn't give a thing about, you know, being a businessman and just let everybody work the way they wanted to work. There was no structure in our salon. It wasn't like a Sassoon and when I took over, I kind of ran the same way, but I implemented a little bit of structure because you know, I had that from Carlton and staff soon. But I had the freedom in my salon that other salons didn't have that Arthur also had before he went under. So I had like the perfect mix and therefore I had, or hence I had like maybe 1% turnover rate in like 20 years. Like, I think I had two hairstylists come and go over 20 years. Literally, like nobody that came to my salon quit. No, I mean, I fired a few people, but not that many, you know what I mean? Only people that like, you know, it just wasn't happening, but like everybody that came to Jonathans Salon, it was, it was very hotel California. Once you can check-in, anytime you like, but you can never

Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Absolutely.

But it was for good reason. They didn't leave because they loved it. Couldn't get it better anywhere else, you know?

I took that leap of faith and it was like, okay, I gotta be a businessman now I gotta figure this out. So, you know, I bought books on like how to run a business and how to set up a corporation and of course, you know, I had lawyers to help me do it, but like, I really did my own due diligence and investigating and educated myself about running a business and how to manage money. Like for day one of owning the salon, I immediately taught myself about money because here's another thing I dropped out of high school in like 11th grade, you know, I didn't graduate high school. I went and took the GED later on, but like, the proficiency exam, but like, I didn't go to college or any of that. I mean, I went to SMC and took a few college classes courses, but like, you know, for AR and other, you know, but like, I really, I've always considered myself extremely uneducated, you know? And I'm speaking like comparatively,

I was going to say like, book-wise

Academically, you know? Yeah. Like, you know, I didn't graduate high school. I didn't go to college and people are my clients, associates, friends, partners, like, you know, they have incredible, academic histories and backgrounds and, you know, I am a street smart and I basically learned everything I know from the streets, you know, I mean, from the streets.

From experience?

From experience, I dunno if I could say by proxy or by because I had to, I had no choice thrown into the deep end. Yeah, that's it. You know,

So what about personally, because I know, I mean, even for me, and for a lot of other people that I've talked to that have started their own businesses, that it changes you personally, did you dive deep into like personal development or did you, did it, did it evolve naturally? Do you think you haven't even really done anything in your personal life? Tell me about that.

Do you mean like emotionally,

I mean, like kind of looking in at yourself, getting to know yourself a little bit better and going holy shit, like--

You know, what, if anything, it kind of pulled me away from that, you know, because I was, yeah, because I was so busy and there was such an urgency I had, I felt such an urgency to succeed and failure was not an option. You know, I came from no money. I've always said, like, you know, my mother and father are still alive today. Thank God. My mom's not well, but she's a fighter and she's still going. But like, God forbid if my mother and father were passed today, my two brothers and my sister and I would owe money. Do you know what I mean? There would be debt. And they're always, you know, it's always been that way. My mom and dad were never rich, you know, they've always done well and had nice things. But they have always spent every penny they've made, you know, there was never any savings or life insurance policies, or, I mean, I don't know if there is, but like, you know, all my friends all had wealthy weld to parents, doctors, and lawyers, and grew up rich in Beverly Hills. And we were born in the Valley and moved to Malibu and then moved to Beverly Hills. But like in apartments and small houses, and, you know, there was no money in my family. And even my grandparents on both sides, like there was never money in my family. And I just felt this urgency to make, to make that change, you know, to sort of start a new lease on life. Do you know what I mean? And be the first one to kind of do it right. Do you know?

Yeah. Kind of like breaking the cycle. Like that's not how you want it to

Break the cycle. Exactly. And by the way, I did, you know, like I was, I bought my salon at 24. I bought my first house at 25 and you know, only have the salon for a year. And it was like I said, it was like a cash cow, you know? And I bought my first house at 25 for $212,000 and Beachwood Canyon and sold it two years later for $500,000. And then I bought my house in the birds' streets kind of like Truesdale estates up the sunset and Doheny. What, what, where are you? Are you in California?

No, I'm in Boston.

Oh, I love Boston. Oh my God. I do. I love Boston. I hate the winter in Boston.

Yeah. That's where we are right now. Winter in Boston.

Well, I mean, actually I don't hate it. It's just, there's nowhere in the world that like even New York, you know, I went to New York for 20 years, every eight weeks and five days and did hair and 20 years, every eight weeks, five days. And those winters were brutal and I'm a California boy, you know what I mean? Like that cold,  like I didn't--when I first started going there, I didn't know, from that cold. And we're, it hurts your bones. But when I started going to Boston, Oh my God, it was like, that's cold in the marrow of your bones.

It's not your bones. You know. How that cold gets inside of your body. I don't even know. It was just like, it was beyond me. And I, you know, anyway, whatever, I still love Boston, you know, I've always said, like, do you know that? I've always said, if I started my career in Boston, I would have made 10 times as much money. If the same thing would've happened with a blowout and the product line and I had the same success that I had in LA if I had that similar success in Boston, not necessarily New York, but maybe like if I was in long Island or, you know on the, you know, upstate New York, but not Manhattan, you know, cause it was already happening there. But like, I just always knew like, you know, even the Carolinas, you know, if I was in like North Carolina or Nashville or Boston or anywhere else, I would have made 10 times as much money. And I would have invested my money way more wisely than I ever did here because, you know, it's just like, listen, I did well. And you know, I invested well, but like I spent well too.

And I've always believed that if I was in another state, I wouldn't have spent the way I spent and lived. So lavishly the way I lived and I would have been smarter with my money, but in LA, you know, you kind of had to like, you know, you had to sort of keep up with the Joneses, you know what I mean? So, and I did save, you know like I said, I did, you know, start that new cycle in my family and change, you know, directions and do things differently. I have a 15-year-old and a 13-year-old, 15-year-old son, 13-year-old daughter today. And you know, they both went to private school and have gone to private schools since day one. And they're both straight-A students, they're both rock star athletes. He's a water polo player and a parkour martial arts expert. And literally like parkour, like flipping jumping off of roofs, jumps over cars. She's a rock star, a volleyball player, I'm talking about like, they're some of the best in the country at their age, in their age groups. And she's a rock star dancer because of my sister. And she's kind of just has it in her blood and she's like, Picasso like she can draw better than I can at 13. So they're both geniuses and they both like, literally, as my kids have never even had like, I mean they have, but like I always say to people, my kids have never even had a Coca-Cola, you know what I mean? Like as much as my kids have never been had as much as a Coca Cola, like no trouble, no drugs, no weird things. No like, you know, they're not like nightmares. Like I was like getting arrested and get smoking weed and cutting class and running around like an adolescent, you know, teenage adolescent, you know, a nightmare. 

It's about money.

What's that?

Do you teach them about money? 

Yeah. I mean, I teach them a little bit about money, but I teach them more about being kind and being good people, you know? And also, you know, like, I coach them when they were younger in sports, which I always tell every father to do with their children, whether you are an athlete or not. You know, I grew up an athlete playing ice hockey and football and I played everything. And I did not a coach when my kids were five and six and seven when they started getting into sports. But like I learned how to coach, I bought books, how to be a coach, you know, how to be a dad, coach, how to coach seven-year-olds and six-year-olds. And, you know and for that reason today, when you walk into their bedrooms, they still have like their corners of the rooms with all their trophies and all their photos of all the teams that they were on from six years old to 10 years old. And then after 10, you know, they start getting coached by real coaches and school coaches. But like from six to 10, for four years, they were both playing two or three sports a year. And I was coaching both of them in both sports. So it was like two full-time jobs.

Well, it was a lot of fun, but, and I loved my kids like them and my, you know, my other, their teammates, they were all like my kids, you know, and their parents loved me. I was coach Jonathan, you know, for four or five years. And if You go look in their bedrooms, like every single picture, every team picture, you know, like they have like probably 12 to 15, over four years team pictures on their walls. And every one of them has me in the picture as the coach. So when their friends come over and see these pictures and their dads didn't coach them, there's always that feeling. I can sense it. Like they look at the picture and they see me in it. They look at all the pictures and all their first-place trophies, like, you know, 20 of them, you know what I mean, first place and golf, basketball, baseball, soccer, volleyball, swimming, you know, everything, you know, listen, I was even a breakdancer when I was growing up and I taught my daughter how to dance, you know, before Robin did, but still it's like, it's something that I did that, like, my wife recommended that I do.

Cause she saw other dads doing it and said, you should try doing this honey because you're a good athlete and you'd be a great coach. And I was like, no, I won't no idea how to coach. I can play any sport in the world. Really well, I mean, there was a time that I thought I was going to go turn pro in golf and I thought I was going to be a pro ice hockey player if I didn't make it as an actor. And it didn't quite work out that way because it's a whole other thing being great and being good enough to play pro you know, I was always great, but never good enough to play pro maybe, golf, but I, you know, you also had to be con grow up in a different lifestyle and I didn't grow up in that lifestyle, you know? So anyway, you know, it just getting back to the question like that, you know, personally did it change me? Like I was so afraid of failure and equally as afraid of success than like, I just dove into it, like, think about it, like, without even thinking about it, but like, not headfirst, but like, we say with all four feet, you know what I mean? Like I just dove in man, and it wasn't even a leap of faith. Like it was a cannonball.


Was a nuclear bomb of faith, you know, with napalm in it. Do you know what I mean? Like there was no chance in hell I was going to fail. And, you know, I mean, I will say that, like, you know, everybody has to have a little bit of luck now and then and Ben Silverman coming to me and asking me to do this thing called a reality show. I thought he was full and he wanted a free haircut. That's what I thought, you know? And I didn't know who he was and quite frankly, I didn't care cause it's like, you know, I did all the biggest stars in the world. And so like a salesman, you know, producer pitching me. I didn't give about who he was or what he was told there.

And I didn't know anything about reality TV. I never even saw the real real world, you know? And that definitely was big, you know, I mean that helped tremendously, you know, it was the biggest billboard in the world for me, but do I think I would have been equally as successful without a blowout. Today looking back, I'll be honest with you. I think I would have been more successful. I think I would have ended up making more money in the long run and I would have handled things more wisely. Blow out, made everything happened much faster and in a much more accelerated fashion. I made much more money, much quicker bottom line. 

Was that like, uh, Oh. What do I do with this? 

A little bit, but, you know, I had, you know, don't forget, like I was doing the hair of all these big stars and behind the camera. So like, you know, all of a sudden when the camera turned on me and, you know, just one example the day that I was doing Ricky Martin's hair, for his live in the Bita loco, or o, no, no, I'm sorry for, she bangs not live the beat of loca after blowout aired. We were at Sony studios and I'm giving him a haircut and, you know, we're walking to the set and people were walking by and not saying, hi, Ricky, can I have your autograph, but saying, Hey Jonathan, hi, are you, is

There any way you could sign my purse or the back of my shirt, like literally asking me for my autograph with Ricky Martin. Like they didn't even know who he was. Some of these people, they didn't even know who he was, you know, and this was after living the beat of loca, but it was like, you know, they were like, you know, grips and lighting guys and girls and, you know, whatever it was, it was really weird. But I was used to it because I was with all the celebrities for that long. And so, you know, I had become accustomed to the lifestyle now, was I ready for it?

No, no. 

You know, after the first season of the blowout, you know, it had aired, and obviously, in LA, you know, people were kind of tripping. I had a huge billboard, like, or I had like a hundred huge billboards all over LA and posters up and, you know, like all over the bus stops and the sides of buses and all over New York and the subways. And, and this was the first season, you know, it was all over America. And then the second season, the show's sold to 40 countries. And in the third season, it sold to like

Another 20 countries. But after the first, these,

And the UK, you know, we flew internationally, to Canada to wherever, just everywhere, South America,  part of Rico and Venezuela and everywhere I went, there were literally like thousands of people in the airports waiting for me because the press there, leaked it, or, you know, my RPR here in LA leaked it everywhere we were flying. And like,  we literally flew to Australia to do press on the released blowout. And it aired there a year later than it aired here, but a year after. And when we were getting off the plane, the guy, the security guy that was with us, we got off the plane and he met us at the door and he was like, ah, Jonathan, all right, my, yeah, I love your show. My wife watches the show constantly.

She watches it all day and all night. It's unbelievable. What you've done for the world of hay is like, nothing else. There are no other shows. Yeah, you might. And by the way, I hate to ask you, but is there anywhere I can get a signature? And I was like, sure. And he was like, and then I just have to warn ya. There are quite a few people out there waiting for you. And they've all got pictures of you and, you know, they've got their shops out. And I was like, okay. And this was our first trip. The first place we went was to Australia. And we had flown to New York and, you know, all over LA all over America, you know, several different States. And it was kind of a big deal, but there weren't people in the airports, but we flew to Australia that I said to the guy, okay, wait, what do you mean, man?

What do you mean? There are people in the airport waiting for me? And he said, Oh, mate, you don't know? I said, no, I don't know. What are you talking about? He goes, ah, there's like 10,000 people out that night. What do you mean? There are 10,000 people out there doing what he goes. He goes, ah, mate, they want to see ya. I love you, Jonathan. They'd been watching for, they've been watching a show, 24, 24 hours a day, all day and night. People go crazy for you here. You like bloody Elvis. And I was like, okay. I was like, okay, wait a second. I can't go. There's no way. And I turned to my, PR check and I was like, sweetheart, you didn't tell me any of them. And this is not cool. Like, I'm not going out there with 10 thousand people.

Like, I'm not a rock star, I'm a hairstylist. Do you know what I mean? I'm not a movie star. I don't know how to deal with that. And she was like, Jonathan, you'll be okay. And I said to the security guy and my PR person, I said, okay, here's the deal though. If I go out there, you're not putting up a rope and separating all these people from me and every single person that has a photo and a Sharpie and wants my signature is getting one. I'm not walking through a crowd of people, handing, you know, sticking out photos like my celebrities do and walk right by them and smile and wave and get in the car and leave. I'm not going to do what they do. Everybody that wants a picture is getting a signature and a picture with me.

So if we're here, there are really 10,000 people out there. We're going to be here. Like, you know, get pumped. We're going here for a while. And I did. I walked out and there were probably more like six or 7,000 people, but I had my whole crew and some support staff from the airport gather, they did it on a Bullhorn. They set it over the bull horn, everybody, listen, we can't get to everybody, I'll stop with the accident, we can't get to everybody. If you're out of control. So what we're going to do is we're going to gather all your photos and Jonathan's going to go into the back and sign them all one by one as quickly as possible. And then just, you need to line up and he's going to run down the line and hand them to you.

And if you want to take a picture, get your phones out, get ready, cameras out. And he'll take a picture, but we gotta do it quickly because he wants every single one of you out of the goodness of his heart. After all, he's a good guy. He wants every single one of you to get what you came for. So as you know, most people aren't like this. So please, please,  bear with us and stay in order. And they all did. So we got all their pictures and went in the back and, you know, we all started signing my signature. The only way was the only way we'd get through all of them. So, you know, I took the whole stack or they kept handing me stack after stack, as we were walking down the line. And I literally walked through by that time, you know, a lot of people had left by the time I had gotten down all the way down the line.

Cause it took so long, but we didn't leave their port. And we got there at like three o'clock and we didn't leave until 11 about 11:00 PM. Yeah. I mean, and it was like this everywhere. Prague Australia, Australia was the craziest, but everywhere, Latin America or South America everywhere, it was nuts. And, you know, I mean, it didn't really go to my head. I stayed very, very normal and very, very chill. But you know, I started making a lot more money than I had ever made. And, you know, I mean, I wasn't dumb with my money. I was buying properties and buying investment properties but also bun cars and Rolex's, and you know, like a maniac, you know, I mean, I had a crazy collection of cars and Rolexes and I mean, I still have a lot of that, but, you know, I ended up selling a bunch of it, you know, when the recession hit, you know, I lost millions and millions of dollars and, and listen, I've had my ups and downs too. Luckily, I've been pretty good with my money and be able to sustain, you know, the ups and downs of life and family and a wife with a very unusual, fine taste in the finer things in life

The best way I've ever heard anyone describe that. Yes,

Of course. Oh, God, let me tell you like the, just the, I mean, how's $40,000 a year for kindergarten per kid. Do you know what I mean? like, you


I was like, they're finger painting for $40,000 a year each, but

I can teach them how to finger paint. Okay. Right. We don't have to pay $80,000 of money that you cannot declare, or you can, we can't declare this, you know what I mean? We can't write this off. It's a private school and whatever, you know, at the time I fought it, but now, in hindsight, my wife was right. Listen, everybody thinks their kids are angels, you know, but like, I'm telling you, and I have no idea. It's not because of me. I'm telling you, my kids are like, we're the luckiest parents on the planet. I don't know how they turned out the way they did. You know, like today my son was upstairs. He for Christmas and Hanukkah, cause I'm a Jew. My wife isn't, but, he got a new computer like a month ago.

And then he wanted a different box for his tower, you know, the tower of the computer. So they bought this new box. So I had to take the whole thing apart. And I'm talking about a brand new, like the state the art computer. Right. Like that. And by the way, he bought it and put it together a month ago. And because he bought all separate pieces and today, yeah. And today he did it again, but like did half of it in front of me. And I was like, how do you even know how to do this? Like that's an engineer. Do you know what I mean? Like, and then, you know, obviously his martial arts and par core, like, and I was an athlete, but like, I was never able to stand on the cement right in front of you and just do a backflip, like Spiderman, you know what I mean? Crazy. Right. He's literally like Spiderman. Like he can run up a wall and do a backflip or run down the street. And if a car's coming out at me, he can do a front flip over the car.

Wow. He's literally

A real living. Spider-Man, it's crazy. And by the way, he's six foot two at 15 years old. And he just turned 15 in November and I'm five 11. So he's already like, you know, like if he, if he doesn't grow anymore, he's already like a God. Do you know what I mean? Cause he can, the way his parkour and in water polo and martial arts, like, and he's like, doesn't give a thing about girls, or guys like he's not even interested in, you know,  women relationships, like my daughter, on the other hand, 13 years old, she's a firecracker she's, you know, he's the angel, she's the firecracker, but you know, they, she's still an angel, you know what I mean? She's just got a little bit more, you know, swagger and yeah, she's a little more like mom. But anyway, you know, like it's not because of me maybe a little bit, but they turned out like, I just have no idea how they turned out the way they turned out. It's just, it's beyond me. But anyway, I know I've rambled and I hope I haven't ruined your whole party.

No, of course not. No, go ahead ask me the last question. Okay.

Tell me what advice you would give to an entrepreneur. Just starting. What would you tell them is the biggest thing that they need to know?

Okay. I'm going to answer your question, but I want to ask you a question first. Have I, would you have asked me like a hundred more questions if I wouldn't have rambled on as much as I did probably a few more jobs, you can ask me that I'm really quick and I won't ramble at all. You can ask me that I'm really quick. Okay. So let me answer. You can, so that's the first we'll do a fire around. Okay. So ask me the question again. What would I tell, what would you tell them?

A new entrepreneur who is just starting their business. And they're probably a little like they've got some self-doubt and they've got some stuff going on. Those limiting beliefs kicking in what in

In today's world with the COVID situation,

Just in general and anything. I mean, the COVID situation to me is, is just, an entrepreneur, it's a test in your endurance and your drive.

It is but it does. It absolutely changes, in my opinion, the way an entrepreneur or most entrepreneurs would think now there's the one percentile that in my belief system, there's the one percentile that doesn't give about COVID and they're going to do what they're going to do regardless, you know? but the best advice I could give an entrepreneur is like, you know, and I hate to sound like, you know, unsure redundant, like a broken record and said the same thing that everybody else says. But like, I would tell them that no matter, regardless of what anybody says to you, you know, taking leaps of faith or, you know,  like I said, like cannonballs of faith, don't listen to anybody.  do whatever your heart tells you that you can do.

And by the way, like if you can't, if you think you can't afford something and you're afraid to take that leap of faith, it. Take that leap of faith. You'll make yourself, be able to afford it afterward. Do you know what I mean? don't be afraid about, you know, not being able to fund things or, you know, don't worry about money it's because if you have that passion and you have that belief, and even if you have that self-doubt, you know, allow that to work for you and just look in the mirror and say, you know what, the two best words in the world, it. Look in the mirror, say to yourself, it, them. The other two best words in the world and just go for it, man, no matter what, just make it happen, that's it there.

Cause there's no secret, you know what I mean? You either go for it and make it happen or you don't, you know what I mean?  that's it, you know, I did, what's his name's hair. can't remember his name, the Wolf of wall street. no, well, I did Leo's hair for 15 years before he was a big, well, at the beginning of this career, but no, no, no, no. The real Wolf of the wall. The real wall. You know, the God, that was--yeah, the real Wolf. I have his book signed for me. I did his hair all the time and you know, you want to talk about an entrepreneur and a maniac and a money monger. Like this guy was a genius. He really was. And although he ruined his life and he things up and he took the wrong way, went down the wrong paths. He was still an insane entrepreneur and could make happen, you know? And, what's out because

He believed it because he believed it

Because he believed it. And you know what? I don't even think it's honestly, I don't think it's because he believed it. I don't think it's because I think it was more out of fear for this guy. And that's how I kind of like, was able to relate to, that's how, like a lot of these people that are entrepreneurs, a lot of them are fear-driven. Do you know what I mean? It's either-- you either in life, you come from one of two places, fear or luck, you know what I mean? And I've always said, I've always said, why not both, you know what I mean? So like, for me, the fear factor has always been a big drive, driver in my life, you know, where I was always afraid of failure. I was kind of afraid of success and that's why I was always like, it. Do you know what I mean? just go for it, you know? so anyway,

All right. Question two. Yeah. What do you think is one of the best habits for an entrepreneur to have?

Don't be stupid with your money. Don't be stupid with your money. you know, of course, you can treat yourself, but I beg of every entrepreneur out there. I beg of them. I pour my heart out and say to them, be smart with your money. You can treat yourself, but like put money away. If you don't save money, you'll never, ever later on in life, be able to chill and relax. You know, you might be, you might have a great life and have tons of money when you're young and, you know, gung ho, but like later on in life, you

Changes. And you know, it is a world of like youth, you know, and when you get up into your fifties, it's like, some people don't have that same fire anymore, or don't look at you the same anymore. Don't want your talents like they did when you were younger. And, you know, you might not have the same opportunities. And if you don't put your money away and you don't invest your money wisely, when you're younger, when you have it, you might not have that opportunity again, you know?

Yeah. Or, you know, just you, when you hit, you know, a certain age anyway, even if you're starting a business in your fifties, like put your money away, because it doesn't matter how old you are. There's going to be a day. You want to chill.

Absolutely. And listen, as I said to you, you know, I am kind of doing starting something and, you know, it's not inexpensive. And, you know, I'm taking another cannonball of faith and kind of like becoming a new entrepreneur again, you know, and so I'm having to take my own old advice, you know, which by the way is harder for me now at 50 or 50, I'm 53, you know, it's harder for me now because, you know, first of all, the cost of living, you know, having children and big home and life, and then you throw COVID into the mix and what that's done to my income and it's crazy, especially right in the middle of me trying to make this other happen.

it's drastically more difficult. but you know, what the bottom line is that I'm gonna do it anyway. I don't give a. You know what I mean? If I spend my last penny making it happen, it doesn't matter to me because I've been there before. I know what it's like to spend, not my last penny, but I know what it's like to spend, thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars trying to make something happen that I don't even have. I mean, or that I didn't have at that time, I went out and bought, you know, cars that, I knew were going to go up in value and, and gotta be collectibles and property that I knew was going to go up in value. And even a few businesses that I invested into that, like, I didn't really have that money, but like, you know, I took loans out and, and borrowed and, you know, some of them went really well.

Some of them were bombs, you know, but like, thank God more of them went well, then the alternative, you know,  or then the opposite. But either way, you still have to, you still got to go for it because if you don't go for it and you don't jump in wholeheartedly, it's never really going to happen unless you win the lottery. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Never going to happen unless you win the lottery. And by the way, you don't have to, you know, there's the other side of life where you can have a regular job and you can make 80 to 150 grand a year, or you can make 65 to 150 grand a year, depending on your living situation. If you're single, you know, you might live in a state where $65,000 a year can afford you a decent lifestyle where you can buy a hundred thousand dollars home, and you might be single and whatever, you know, being a mailman or I don't know, you know, whatever, you know, but that might be. you might be able to live a very comfortable, peaceful life doing that.

That also there's something to be said for that too. I'm a big fan of those people that had been working for ups, uh, for the last 40 years. And they're making $38 an hour or whatever, and, you know, 80,000, $70,000 a year, but they have this insane retirement fund and they're going to be able to retire and, you know, they live and, you know, they live well within their means and they're gonna retire and they're going to have a chill life, you know, there's something to really be said for that. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, that's success to them and, you know, it is all relative,

You know, I've, I have friends that make a 10th of what I make, but their bills are a 10th of what mine are. And, you know, I say to them, listen, sometimes I feel like I would trade places with you, three out of seven days a week, because like, you know, like the, what I have, yeah. I know you see what I have and you think, you know, you Google me and my net worth, which by the way, it's all nonsense that, but like, you know,  like it is all relevant, but it ain't that glamorous and you know, it like your situation, there's a lot less stress and there's a lot to be said for that. You know, so everyone's answer is, that's it, the answer to the question is be smart with your money.

That's it, you know, invest, invest, save, save, save, save, and invest, you know? Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Jonathan, thank you so much for coming on today. I appreciate it. Oh, you're very welcome. Or, sorry. I rambled forever, but I know, I know. You're very welcome. Thank you for having me. And I wish you all the best and let me know when it's going to, or is it already, it's not live yet. let me know. And, I mean, I'm not a big, Instagram, or I'm not big on social, you know, I mean, I have a few followers obviously, but, I'm not big in social media, but I'm becoming, or starting to, I'm starting to get ready to, you know, a secret pivot with the secret pivot. Get more into my world of social media. Everyone, if you want to know what Johnson's secret pivot is, go find him on Instagram. Exactly. And stay tuned. All right. You're very welcome. Thank you. Take care.


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