In this episode, Sarah Talbert shares the benefits of knowing your Enneagram and how you can use this to tap into your business potential. She shows us how to understand your enneagram, how it can reveal the real reason behind negative behavior, and how it helps you make decisions.
Sarah Talbert is a conversion copywriter and Enneagram enthusiast focused on helping professionals break free from their stuffy industry persona and connect with their audience genuinely.
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Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the elevated entrepreneur podcast. Today. I'm here with Sarah Talbert. She's actually a copywriter by profession, but today we're going to talk about the Enneagram and what the numbers mean. I've shared mine with Sarah and she's going to give us a little taste of what mine looks like.
Sure. It's very interesting.
So Sarah, welcome. How are you? I'm good. Thanks for having me. I love chatting about the Enneagram any chance I get
Yeah. I'm excited to talk about this. Cause you know, every time you start something new or you look at something different that you've never seen before, you're like, what exactly am I looking at right now? And it can get overwhelming because there's so much stuff out there, right? I mean, we'll get any grants, human design, astrology birth charts. Oh my gosh. All of Myers-Briggs. There are just things that keep going on.
Exactly. And you're like, okay, are these all these things actually gonna like, tell me something about that. I didn't know kind of, I mean-- yeah.
So one thing I do love about the Enneagram is it's a tool. And so I don't like, I don't do all the womb stuff. I don't know if you do, but I don't, but it's a tool. And so it's a great tool to be able to find out what is motivating you. And so I like to say that it's an opportunity, like Myers-Briggs kind of talks about like what you do and how you do things, but the Enneagram is so valuable to know why we're doing these things. And so you see as the symptoms, but what is the actual reason behind that negative behavior pattern or that positive behavior pattern? Why do we keep doing the things that we're doing?
Yes. Well, please tell me why I'm doing it.
Well, let's look at your chart. Okay.
Yeah. So share. I did share, Oh, there it is. Okay. Here we go. Okay. Here's my chart. So I have an eight, seven, well, eight. I don't know you tell me what is happening. Here we go.
Yeah. So you're visual. I'm not sure where you took your test. And side note, typically not typically a lot of times I encourage people to do more reading about their numbers or reading about a number in general, to say, does this resonate because a lot of times tests are obviously flawed. After all, they're, I don't know, but I feel like a lot of times the tests can sometimes be off, but if you read about your number and you're like, this is so me, then that's probably more accurate. So to a pasture side note,
Touch on that for one second. So it's interesting that those tests, some tests are flawed and I'm not sure it's really the test. I find that, you know, when we take a test like this, we tend to answer in what we think we should be answering instead of what we like our truth.
For sure. Yeah.
So I think the best advice that I could give anybody is the way that you're taking this kind of a test and Enneagram, any type of personality test or whatever it is answer truthfully, like honestly, to you, like, nobody's gonna know your answers, but you're going to get an accurate result or a more accurate result, you know?
Yep. You remember I don't know if you remember, but in 17 magazines you'd have those quizzes, and like, I wanted to get a certain answer, so I'd put it to the back so I can circle the four instead of the three. I don't know. Yeah, don't do that. It's not going to be accurate. Right. So your biggest member here is an eight and an eight is known to bring strength and bring-- they like to fight injustice wherever it exists. They are the highest level of energy on the Enneagram. They seem to be able to do a lot and go a lot. My husband is actually an eight and he has currently had three businesses going, not because he has to, but because he can't sit still and he expects quality in service and quantity in service. And so he wants speed and accuracy and perfection in the things that he does. Eight also symbolizes love, power, and control. And they also, I don't want to say confrontation excites you, but confrontation doesn't necessarily bother you like a lot of the numbers. Like, especially if there is an injustice that's bothering you, you have no problems speaking up, and being blunt and very direct. Tell me how that sounds.
And I've done a lot of work on the control thing, as you mentioned before like you don't do the woo stuff, but we're all through here. So we ride the retrain. We have like time passes. Yeah. So I've-- and you don't need to be wooed to do in our work and development. So there are definitely things that an eight, it makes sense that I have an eight that I have actually worked a lot on, like letting go of control. And I think, you know when you were saying that the confrontation, I think it's more like passion. So for me anyway, like I have no problem exactly telling you like I'm blunt and to the point and you know, like push you outside of your comfort zone consistently. But it comes from passion and it comes from a want for you to succeed so much that it just flows out of me. So yes, that is.
And I think my husband does the same thing and sometimes he'll like to push the kids a little too far with my opinion, but I'm a totally different number. But sometimes he'll push because he's like, I see that they have this in them, and then sitting there is not helping them. And so I hear that. And so that leads me to talk about the-- I like to teach the Enneagram in triads. And what I mean by that is the Enneagram can be broken up into three parts in many different ways. But what I'd like to talk about is there's a gut triad, which is like your instinct, like your body, your intuition, your heart, and then your mind until it has your head, heart, and gut. And so the eight, nine in one are in that gut triad.
And so you respond from your gut, you respond from your instinct. And so you're just, no, there's something inside somebody. And you just know that feeling and you just need to act on it. The two, three, and four are your heart space. And so that's where you have, you have a lot of feelings and emotions and you just do a lot of feeling and five, six and seven are your mind, your thinking, your logic, those things. And so for an eight, you have a connection in a heart and guts space. And that's why you're seeing your picture that this eight and the five and the two are a little bit bigger because that's where you're going to reside. And so for you, your HeartSpace is a two and two, they're all about relationships. So when you are fighting for someone or wanting to support someone, it's because of that relationship side, that you're wanting to help.
And then that five is your logic side, and that's where you can sit back and do some of that inner work you were talking about and think through decisions and pause before that eight takes over and just does the next thing. So I think that's probably why you're seeing some of that five be a little bit bigger in your picture because you've done some of the work to kind of tame your eight and go, okay, I need to like, take a step back, think through these decisions before I take control of it. Does that make sense?
Oh yeah. No, that makes total sense. So my seven in that is a little bit bigger than the five. Does that make any difference?
So I think this is where people talk about the wings, which I don't do a lot of talk about the wings. So people listening may be like, this is what I wanted to hear, but--so sometimes they say wings there, just because you can pull from a little bit of one side or another better near you. And so a seven is fun-loving, they're outgoing or the life of the party. You almost always know when a seventh in the room. So that's-- I don't have a lot to say about that, but the wings are coming. You can lean a little one or another and so.
Awesome. So that makes total sense. All of those things that you just said, make total sense to me. So if somebody else was to create their own Enneagram, can we run through just like a really short description maybe of each number so that people can be like, Oh, okay. That makes sense.
Yep. So we'll start with one just because that makes sense. When usually when you're teaching it, you start with nine, but people get confused. So that's one-- Oh one brings goodness into the world. And they want to make the world a better place. So have you ever had been around someone who has an extremely strong moral compass? Like everything, like you say, it's black and they're like, eh, it's kind of grayish-black and they need to correct you. They have this desire to make everything perfect. So I had a client one time who went to the doctor with her mother and the doctor asked if she had been like playing with friends in the neighborhood or something. And your mom's like, no, not really. She said she cried all the way home because she had actually played with a friend in the neighborhood that week and thought her mom had lied to the doctor and it just broke her moral compass.
And so those really, really want goodness in the world. So a way to break through the perfectionism and land. So I kind of talk about sales for each person to how each type can bring more sales in their business. It helped them focus on getting elements, the key elements, right? So the key things that are right, but kind of relaxing and not over-focusing on the detail. So it's gonna kind of help you reduce some of your frustration-- a two. So this is going to be in that heart space, that feeling space, that relationship space we were talking about, they need to feel valuable or they feel valued when they have relationships, but they can start to get resentful when they give, give, give, give, give, and no one gives that. But they're naturally over-giving, overextending their resources of emotion and time and all the things-- a way they can break through the perfectionism and relations inland, more clients are not to over-give their time. We structure maybe some of their programs or services so that they have opportunities to self-care, opportunities to really take care of themselves. And I know a lot of twos really are like, I have no idea how to do that
Right. For themselves, yeah. Time and all that.
Exactly. And so a motto for a two is love contemplate then decides. And so that love piece is where they really pour out, but they need to take a step back before they make a decision. So type three is what a lot of entrepreneurs are. We've done a lot of research with entrepreneurs on this in a lot of them are type threes, but type threes like to take shortcuts. And sometimes I've seen that they like to walk away from clients who don't agree with you, and they're very, very competitive. But it's a way to protect themselves from truly being vulnerable. They don't think anyone's really going to like them for them. And so they do put up all these facades and try to hide who they really are. But they really need to trust that people like them for them. And so that's some of the harder, harder work for three to do.
And that is, you know, the base, the basic foundation for client attraction, right. Is to be, you. Be who you are. And so a lot of times they'll put up a facade of someone who they've liked and they admired. But they can't keep that going forever. So I had a call with a client one time who was a type three, and she said, one of the things that helped her the most with the Enneagram was she said, I'm not listening enough. I talk about myself and I talk about my services all the time, and it's not that she's necessarily super proud of her services, which she should be. But it was more of, if I talk about these services, then I don't have to like really get down and get to know me. So a motto for a three is effective loyalty harmonizes. And so that three is very effective. They like the checklist, but that loyalty piece is going to be valuable.
And that harmony piece has been really valuable to help you feel more whole, I guess. Awesome. Type four, turn to truck through these, type four is the artists in the room. They started their business to make meaningful connections similar to the two, but the four brings beauty to the world. Their core motivation is to be original in everything they do. They can communicate dramatically. They may have been told as a child to stop being so dramatic may have been told this as well. So I had a call one time with somebody who was a four and her comment was, I've never felt so safe. And so they're dying to be seen as unique. And so that's something that they, I know a copywriter was a four and she is brilliant because everything she has to put out is so original.
But their failings are kind of what motivates them a lot. And so kind of putting some mind and gut to that, all those emotions will be helpful. A motto for four is creativity, which is who they are joyfully renewed all the time. The four can be very melancholy and they are one of the ones in the Enneagram that can sit in pain and sit with someone without trying to change them. And so sometimes they need that joy and new life inside of them, to renew some of that creativity yeah. Questions. Or am I--
No, I'm totally zoned in here.
Okay. Type five. So type five are very, very logical. They are like the brainiacs on the Enneagram. One of my best friends is a five. And she is a Google expert. Like she finds everything on Google and then ends up down a rabbit hole because she started researching one thing and researched a thousand things after that.
It doesn't surprise me. That is definitely, you know, one of my, yeah--
So five usually start their business to be independent and also to be seen as competent. And so that's a core motivation for a five is to be seen as competent. If they're in a group setting and someone called them and they don't know the answer, that's one of the most humiliating things they can go through because they need to be seen as competent. They also have the least amount of energy on the new grants. So a way that they can kind of make some more sales or connect with people is to try to connect on an emotional level, even if it's draining. It will help that potential clients know they are seen and heard that they are not just another fact. They're not just another number. They are a human being, and a motto for a five is wisdom, lovingly directs. And so they usually are wise. They usually are very put together, but they need that love side and they need the action side behind just all the information
Type six are known for being great connectors and being very loyal. They make great teammates. And so there's not, I haven't run it. I do know some, but I haven't run into a lot of sixes who are solo. A lot of them are like, they work on someone else's team. So like, I've met a lot of great VAs who are sixes, but they don't have a lot of--they doubt their decisions a lot. And so they like to be part of a team and so that they can kind of help guide and direct as a group. They help create a great sense of community. So if you're sick and you're struggling to make sales, you can ask, how can I connect with this other person and maybe support their dream through my services? A lot of times that gives you more purpose than feeling like you're all alone and you don't know what decisions to make. A motto for a six is faithfulness produces peace. So they are very faithful. If you can have a six on your team if you're growing a team and you, and you want to do like Enneagram training to hire someone, who's going to be a great option.
So they would make like great, like community, managers or, you know, like, VA's definitely like, I was going to say OBMs and then I was like, Hmm. Is that true? Yeah. I guess it is a role.
Yup. My mother is a sixth and she is a director of a pregnancy center, but she needs feedback from the whole team, and she's great at what she does. She just needs that whole community around her.
Kind of like confirmation too. Like they just need pollination of their right thing.
Exactly. Their hearts I've found they're hard to coach because they come in and they listen and they're like all supportive and they're like, why not? And then they get to do it on their own. And they're like, I don't know. I don't know.
But yes, they are, the faithfulness produces peace. So type seven fun-loving they started their business to just experience life to the fullest and have freedom. Like they're like they want freedom. But sometimes there are roadblocks to a successful business. This includes the fact that they don't want to slow down to fulfill their responsibilities, or they feel trapped by routine and structure. So had a client one time who had a coach for the longest time, and I told her, you need to time block, that will help you structure your day. But after working with her and realizing she's a seven, that was the worst thing possible. As she could, she would just avoid doing anything because it was on a schedule and it was like mandated. She did it at this time and that felt too structured for her. She couldn't do it. Like that's not why I started this business. Right. Exactly.
And so anytime someone says, you must do it this way. They're like, okay, I'm doing it differently.
It doesn't surprise me that my seven is pretty big too.
And that's actually what my husband is. He's eight and he's got a lot of seven characteristics. So also know that structure in some form, so creating freedom for seven, knowing that some kind of structure will help you grow your business. And so avoiding all of it is gonna be a disaster. Yes, but the seven's motto is joy is deeply stable. Joy is deeply stable. And then an eight, we kind of went over a little bit of that power control. But sometimes the sales are a way to make more sales. It's kind of pulling back some of your intensity if you sense people are overwhelmed. And so you do have an eight energy level that can be extreme on a call because you're just so passionate and you know that other people like you see it in them and you want them to do this next thing, can be a little overwhelming.
So sometimes validating the other people's emotions in a sales conversation, help people lean in a little bit more and a motto for an eight is the strength is contemplated. So thinking through that contemplated piece in your five, and that love peace is your two, the strength, this contemplated love, and then tight nine. This is me at the time. They started their business to create some kind of peace in their life. One reason I started was to fill a financial gap because it was causing a lack of peace. It was causing actual anxiety. So it was like, if I can just fill this money gap, it'll let me have that peace again. Cause they're always trying to find peace externally and internally. And they avoid conflict like the plague, which is why I think I like eight, cause they'll do all my conflict for me.
But a funny thing is they make great mediators. And so they don't like their own conflict, but they do a great job of being a mediator between two people. And so I think that's one thing that makes me a really good copywriter is I can see all the angles, all the sides, even if I don't agree with someone, I still understand why they're coming from that place. And I can pull in all the points of view. And then nine sits at the top of the Enneagram so they can see all the pictures, all the points of view. And so as a nine, my biggest sales conflict was her sales struggle with conflict. And so if people came to me asking questions if they ask more than one question, I felt like it was conflicting. And so I'd just be like, okay, how can you say help you enjoy your afternoon?
But one way, exactly. Yes, it was. And so one way that I was able to tackle this person was to write down why my service matters to them. And so getting behind my own, why, I guess, how I'm going to help them and support them and really understand that this is being that mediator between them and my services and kind of pulling myself out of it. But I'm connecting my services in them and seeing the points of view from both without being emotionally involved in it. And kind of just facilitating a conversation.
Oh, sorry. Do you feel you do that with like between them and their potential clients as well? Like when you're writing copy?
Yes. I think that's what makes me a really good copywriter is that I do a lot of research, on the back end, like focus on groups and phone conversations and all kinds of stuff because I can step in and be like, all right, what are the connecting points? I see your point of view. I see where you're coming from. I think the client's point of view, now let's put it on paper.
Yeah, that's great.
And then a nine's motto is peace affects teams. So they're looking for that peace. And then that effect is part of their triad, and the team is coming. I don't need to go into all that. Let peace effects the team. Awesome.
Those are great. And I can easily see how in myself, you know, we do have pieces of all of these things. Right. And it's just like the ones that kind of stand out a little bit more, you know, are your big numbers obviously.
Yes. And so the training that I did, they taught that if we were like the perfect person, we would have a whole of every number. And so it's kind of like, you see, if you see your picture, you're starting to grow like that five, as we talked about through some of the inner work you do. So being able to pull in some of all the pieces helps.
Have you ever seen anyone that has a whole pie?
No. No. We're all flawed.
I wonder if Gandhi or Mother Teresa would have had like a whole pie.
Jesus. Jesus. Yeah. I mean, wow.
Yeah, that would be interesting. Go back in time and check those.
Let's take this any dream test. He'd be like, what are you doing?
I know he'd be like, actually probably be like, okay.
Yeah, let's do it. Let's see it.
Oh, that's amazing. Awesome. So I definitely can see the benefit of anyone that, you know, if you haven't taken an Enneagram test yet you should go do it. What's the best place Sarah, that you think that people can go to to take one?
I take one from, I pay for mine. I'm trying to look it up
Trying to remember where I did mine. Mine was a free test, but I don't remember what website it was, but I'll definitely link a couple of options in the show notes so that people have the option.
So, W E P F S .com is where I send to clients before we do an actual Enneagram session. Just so we have like a baseline to work off. So cool. But I think it's $10 for that test.
Cool. And I'll link up the free site that I took this on and I took it a couple of times and just never saved the image. So every time I went to go look back at it, I was like, crap, where's my picture.
And I also suggest reading-- there's a book called the road back to you. Anything by Susan's the Beale and I can send you some links, but I suggest reading if you're interested in it, find a book and just read about the numbers even more so than just taking the test and moving on.
I know that I did copy some of the wording from the website that I took, but a free website, they don't give you a huge, you know, a big, long thing. They just kind of tell you what kind of it is. And you kind of get to put the pieces together and if you want to know more, then they're like, okay, now you, you can pay the entire report.
Yes, of course. We know how that goes.
They're in business just like us. Right. That's right. That's right. I am sharing a screen with Sarah right now and she can see, you know, it does show me, like it says two, and then it's like 75% match. And then it tells you what that is like described as the giver, you know, things like that. And that was on a free site. So I'll link that up in the show notes. But Sarah tells everyone where they can find you, whether where's to find you for copywriting or to find you to do an Enneagram session, let us know where we can find you.
So Sarah talbert.com is going to have all my information. You and I recently started a Facebook group called master your messaging. Was there a Talbert?
Awesome. Amazing. And I also have an Instagram, sandbar.
Yep. Instagram sandbar marketing.
Awesome. So as always, if you got anything out of this, I don't know why I keep saying if you got anything because of course, you got something out of this episode. If you're listening to get stuff out of this,
Tell us what you did get out of it. Cause we love to hear about that stuff. So screenshot the episode and then tag us on Instagram and your stories and let us know what your aha moment was or what you were like, Oh my gosh, I need to go do this. Or after you get your chest, have you take a test, come tell us what you got.
I'm excited to know about, you know, what that is, and how it resonated with you. So anything else that you would like anyone to know about Enneagrams?
All right, perfect. We did pretty in-depth stuff today. So I'm sure that this at least a number resonated with most people that are going to listen to this. So I'm excited to hear what they, what they come up with, and what they think. So Sarah, thank you so much for coming on today. I appreciate you being here and sharing all this knowledge with us.
All right, everyone. Well, you're welcome. We'll see you in the next episode.
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